{"id":981,"date":"2024-03-19T12:15:09","date_gmt":"2024-03-19T16:15:09","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/?page_id=981"},"modified":"2024-03-19T15:21:48","modified_gmt":"2024-03-19T19:21:48","slug":"mmi-104-systems-in-conflict","status":"publish","type":"page","link":"https:\/\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/podcast\/mmi-104-systems-in-conflict\/","title":{"rendered":"MMI 104 &#8211; Systems in Conflict"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><div class=\"fusion-fullwidth fullwidth-box fusion-builder-row-1 fusion-flex-container nonhundred-percent-fullwidth non-hundred-percent-height-scrolling\" style=\"--awb-border-radius-top-left:0px;--awb-border-radius-top-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-bottom-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-bottom-left:0px;--awb-flex-wrap:wrap;\" ><div class=\"fusion-builder-row fusion-row fusion-flex-align-items-flex-start fusion-flex-content-wrap\" style=\"max-width:1248px;margin-left: calc(-4% \/ 2 );margin-right: calc(-4% \/ 2 );\"><div class=\"fusion-layout-column fusion_builder_column fusion-builder-column-0 fusion_builder_column_1_1 1_1 fusion-flex-column\" style=\"--awb-bg-size:cover;--awb-width-large:100%;--awb-margin-top-large:-60px;--awb-spacing-right-large:1.92%;--awb-margin-bottom-large:0px;--awb-spacing-left-large:1.92%;--awb-width-medium:100%;--awb-order-medium:0;--awb-spacing-right-medium:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-medium:1.92%;--awb-width-small:100%;--awb-order-small:0;--awb-spacing-right-small:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-small:1.92%;\" data-scroll-devices=\"small-visibility,medium-visibility,large-visibility\"><div class=\"fusion-column-wrapper fusion-column-has-shadow fusion-flex-justify-content-flex-start fusion-content-layout-column\"><div class=\"fusion-title title fusion-title-1 fusion-sep-none fusion-title-text fusion-title-size-two\" style=\"--awb-margin-bottom:-20px;--awb-margin-top-small:10px;--awb-margin-right-small:0px;--awb-margin-bottom-small:10px;--awb-margin-left-small:0px;\"><h2 class=\"fusion-title-heading title-heading-left\" style=\"font-family:var(--awb-typography1-font-family);font-weight:var(--awb-typography1-font-weight);font-style:var(--awb-typography1-font-style);margin:0;\"><h2><span style=\"font-size: 28px;\" data-fusion-font=\"true\"><span style=\"font-size: 28px;\" data-fusion-font=\"true\">Making a Meal of It \u2014 episode 104: Systems in Conflict<br \/><\/span><\/span><\/h2><\/h2><\/div><\/div><\/div><div class=\"fusion-layout-column fusion_builder_column fusion-builder-column-1 fusion_builder_column_1_4 1_4 fusion-flex-column\" style=\"--awb-bg-blend:overlay;--awb-bg-size:cover;--awb-width-large:25%;--awb-margin-top-large:-20px;--awb-spacing-right-large:0%;--awb-margin-bottom-large:0px;--awb-spacing-left-large:7.68%;--awb-width-medium:25%;--awb-spacing-right-medium:0%;--awb-spacing-left-medium:7.68%;--awb-width-small:100%;--awb-spacing-right-small:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-small:1.92%;\"><div class=\"fusion-column-wrapper fusion-flex-justify-content-flex-start fusion-content-layout-column\"><div class=\"fusion-image-element \" style=\"text-align:left;--awb-aspect-ratio:1 \/ 1;--awb-margin-bottom:20px;--awb-caption-title-font-family:var(--h4_typography-font-family);--awb-caption-title-font-weight:var(--h4_typography-font-weight);--awb-caption-title-font-style:var(--h4_typography-font-style);--awb-caption-title-size:var(--h4_typography-font-size);--awb-caption-title-transform:var(--h4_typography-text-transform);--awb-caption-title-line-height:var(--h4_typography-line-height);--awb-caption-title-letter-spacing:var(--h4_typography-letter-spacing);\"><span class=\" fusion-imageframe imageframe-none imageframe-1 hover-type-none has-aspect-ratio\"><a class=\"fusion-no-lightbox\" href=\"https:\/\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/podcast\/\" target=\"_self\" aria-label=\"podcast cover image_500x500\"><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"500\" height=\"500\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/podcast-cover-image_500x500.png?resize=500%2C500&#038;ssl=1\" class=\"img-responsive wp-image-892 img-with-aspect-ratio\" data-parent-fit=\"cover\" data-parent-container=\".fusion-image-element\" alt srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/podcast-cover-image_500x500.png?resize=66%2C66&amp;ssl=1 66w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/podcast-cover-image_500x500.png?resize=150%2C150&amp;ssl=1 150w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/podcast-cover-image_500x500.png?resize=200%2C200&amp;ssl=1 200w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/podcast-cover-image_500x500.png?resize=300%2C300&amp;ssl=1 300w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/podcast-cover-image_500x500.png?resize=400%2C400&amp;ssl=1 400w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/02\/podcast-cover-image_500x500.png?w=500&amp;ssl=1 500w\" sizes=\"(max-width: 640px) 100vw, 400px\" \/><\/a><\/span><\/div><\/div><\/div><div class=\"fusion-layout-column fusion_builder_column fusion-builder-column-2 fusion_builder_column_3_4 3_4 fusion-flex-column\" style=\"--awb-padding-right:30px;--awb-padding-left:30px;--awb-bg-size:cover;--awb-width-large:75%;--awb-margin-top-large:-30px;--awb-spacing-right-large:0%;--awb-margin-bottom-large:;--awb-spacing-left-large:0%;--awb-width-medium:75%;--awb-order-medium:0;--awb-spacing-right-medium:0%;--awb-spacing-left-medium:0%;--awb-width-small:100%;--awb-order-small:0;--awb-spacing-right-small:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-small:1.92%;\" data-scroll-devices=\"small-visibility,medium-visibility,large-visibility\"><div class=\"fusion-column-wrapper fusion-column-has-shadow fusion-flex-justify-content-flex-start fusion-content-layout-column\"><div class=\"fusion-text fusion-text-1\" style=\"--awb-font-size:18px;--awb-line-height:1.5;--awb-letter-spacing:var(--awb-typography4-letter-spacing);--awb-text-transform:var(--awb-typography4-text-transform);--awb-text-color:#7c501a;--awb-text-font-family:var(--awb-typography4-font-family);--awb-text-font-weight:var(--awb-typography4-font-weight);--awb-text-font-style:var(--awb-typography4-font-style);\"><\/p>\n<p>We talk a lot about THE food system, but in reality, our world comprises multiple food systems, along with a lot of other kinds of systems, each of them overlapping with, interacting with, and often conflicting with each other. This episode looks at how those interacting systems of systems often produce really challenging types of conflict, whether it\u2019s between colonialism and Indigenous foodways, corporate-exploitative capitalism and nature, or technological systems and sustainability. Guests include food educator Jane Clause, artist-activist Zack Denfeld, and the incomparable systems thinker, astrophysicist, and former Green Party of Canada leader, Amita Kuttner. And oh, yeah\u2014Maxime and David eat a piece of Christmas cake, quite a few months after the festive season.<\/p><\/p>\n<\/div><div class=\"fusion-audio fusion-audio-1\" style=\"--awb-progress-color:var(--awb-color6);--awb-border-color:var(--awb-color1);--awb-background-color:#4b8991;--awb-max-width:100%;--awb-margin-top:10px;--awb-margin-bottom:20px;--awb-border-size:1;--awb-border-top-left-radius:10;--awb-border-top-right-radius:10;--awb-border-bottom-right-radius:10;--awb-border-bottom-left-radius:10;\"><audio class=\"wp-audio-shortcode\" id=\"audio-981-1\" preload=\"none\" style=\"width: 100%;\" controls=\"controls\"><source type=\"audio\/mpeg\" src=\"https:\/\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/03\/MMI-ep104.mp3?_=1\" \/><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/03\/MMI-ep104.mp3\">https:\/\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/03\/MMI-ep104.mp3<\/a><\/audio><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><div class=\"fusion-fullwidth fullwidth-box fusion-builder-row-2 fusion-flex-container has-pattern-background has-mask-background nonhundred-percent-fullwidth non-hundred-percent-height-scrolling\" style=\"--link_hover_color: var(--awb-color6);--link_color: var(--awb-color5);--awb-border-radius-top-left:0px;--awb-border-radius-top-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-bottom-right:0px;--awb-border-radius-bottom-left:0px;--awb-padding-top:0px;--awb-margin-top:0px;--awb-background-image:linear-gradient(180deg, rgba(201,216,164,0.62) 0%,var(--awb-color2) 60%);--awb-flex-wrap:wrap;\" ><div class=\"fusion-builder-row fusion-row fusion-flex-align-items-flex-start fusion-flex-content-wrap\" style=\"max-width:1248px;margin-left: calc(-4% \/ 2 );margin-right: calc(-4% \/ 2 );\"><div class=\"fusion-layout-column fusion_builder_column fusion-builder-column-3 fusion_builder_column_1_1 1_1 fusion-flex-column\" style=\"--awb-padding-right:20px;--awb-padding-left:20px;--awb-bg-size:cover;--awb-width-large:100%;--awb-margin-top-large:10px;--awb-spacing-right-large:1.92%;--awb-margin-bottom-large:20px;--awb-spacing-left-large:1.92%;--awb-width-medium:100%;--awb-order-medium:0;--awb-spacing-right-medium:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-medium:1.92%;--awb-width-small:100%;--awb-order-small:0;--awb-spacing-right-small:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-small:1.92%;\"><div class=\"fusion-column-wrapper fusion-column-has-shadow fusion-flex-justify-content-flex-start fusion-content-layout-column\"><div class=\"fusion-title title fusion-title-2 fusion-title-center fusion-title-text fusion-title-size-three\" style=\"--awb-text-color:#4e4a7a;--awb-margin-bottom:0px;--awb-margin-top-small:10px;--awb-margin-right-small:0px;--awb-margin-bottom-small:10px;--awb-margin-left-small:0px;\"><div class=\"title-sep-container title-sep-container-left\"><div class=\"title-sep sep-double sep-solid\" style=\"border-color:var(--awb-color3);\"><\/div><\/div><span class=\"awb-title-spacer\"><\/span><h3 class=\"fusion-title-heading title-heading-center\" style=\"margin:0;\">notes<\/h3><span class=\"awb-title-spacer\"><\/span><div class=\"title-sep-container title-sep-container-right\"><div class=\"title-sep sep-double sep-solid\" style=\"border-color:var(--awb-color3);\"><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><\/div><div class=\"fusion-layout-column fusion_builder_column fusion-builder-column-4 fusion_builder_column_3_5 3_5 fusion-flex-column\" style=\"--awb-padding-left:20px;--awb-bg-size:cover;--awb-width-large:60%;--awb-margin-top-large:0px;--awb-spacing-right-large:3.2%;--awb-margin-bottom-large:20px;--awb-spacing-left-large:3.2%;--awb-width-medium:60%;--awb-order-medium:0;--awb-spacing-right-medium:3.2%;--awb-spacing-left-medium:3.2%;--awb-width-small:100%;--awb-order-small:0;--awb-spacing-right-small:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-small:1.92%;\" data-scroll-devices=\"small-visibility,medium-visibility,large-visibility\"><div class=\"fusion-column-wrapper fusion-column-has-shadow fusion-flex-justify-content-flex-start fusion-content-layout-column\"><div class=\"fusion-text fusion-text-2\" style=\"--awb-content-alignment:left;--awb-font-size:16px;--awb-text-color:#000000;\"><p><strong><u>Episode 104<\/u>: Systems in Conflict<br \/><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong><u>Duration<\/u>: 00:52:17<br \/><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><u><strong>Guests<\/strong><\/u>:<u><br \/><\/u><\/p>\n<p><strong><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignleft wp-image-984\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/03\/Clause.jpg?resize=109%2C150&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" width=\"109\" height=\"150\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/03\/Clause.jpg?resize=200%2C276&amp;ssl=1 200w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/03\/Clause.jpg?w=217&amp;ssl=1 217w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 109px) 100vw, 109px\" \/><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>(Courtney)<\/strong> <strong>Jane Clause<\/strong> is the projects coordinator for the <a href=\"https:\/\/researchcentres.wlu.ca\/centre-for-sustainable-food-systems\/index.html\">Laurier Centre for Sustainable Food Systems<\/a> and the <a href=\"https:\/\/researchcentres.wlu.ca\/unesco-chair\/index.html\">UNESCO Chair on Food, Biodiversity, and Sustainability Studies<\/a>. She has a BA in <em>criminology and socio-legal<\/em> studies at the University of Toronto and a master\u2019s degree in communications and media studies from Carleton University. Jane has published on the role of effective communications in improving seasonal agricultural workers\u2019 experience in <a href=\"https:\/\/www.frontiersin.org\/articles\/10.3389\/fcomm.2021.666652\/full\">Frontiers in Communication<\/a> and in <a href=\"https:\/\/ecampusontario.pressbooks.pub\/foodstudies\/chapter\/communication-migrant-workers\/\">Food Studies: Matter, Meaning, Movement<\/a>. She is also the creator and professor of the Indigenous Food Systems course in the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.georgebrown.ca\/programs\/honours-bachelor-of-food-studies-program-h317\">Bachelor of Food Studies program at George Brown College<\/a> in Toronto. Jane is a registered band member of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.sixnations.ca\/\">Six Nations of the Grand River<\/a>. And take a look at the Haudenosaunee food projects Jane mentions in the podcast:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.kayanase.ca\/\">Kayanase<\/a> (greenhouse and native plant propagation business)<\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.cheftawnyabrant.com\/\">Chef Tawnya Brant<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/p\/Yaw%C3%A9kon-by-Chef-Tawnya-Brant-100063617197024\/\">Yaw\u00e9kon<\/a> (catering by Tawnya Brant)<\/li>\n<li>the <a href=\"https:\/\/canadianfoodstudies.uwaterloo.ca\/index.php\/cfs\/article\/view\/210\">Healthy Roots and Our Sustenance initiatives<\/a> (article in <em>Canadian Food Studies)<\/em><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><strong><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignleft wp-image-985\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/03\/Denfield.jpg?resize=111%2C150&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" width=\"111\" height=\"150\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/03\/Denfield.jpg?resize=200%2C270&amp;ssl=1 200w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/03\/Denfield.jpg?w=222&amp;ssl=1 222w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 111px) 100vw, 111px\" \/><\/strong><\/p>\n<p><strong>Zack Denfeld<\/strong> and Cathrine Kramer founded the Center for Genomic Gastronomy in 2010 and continue to lead many of the research projects the Center undertakes. They are artists, writers, speakers, and prototypers of alternative culinary futures. Their projects, blog posts, and images can be found on the <a href=\"https:\/\/genomicgastronomy.com\/\">Center\u2019s website<\/a>, along with <a href=\"https:\/\/genomicgastronomy.com\/texts\/genomic-gastronomy-lexicon\/\">the Genomic Gastronomy Lexicon<\/a>, a mind-expanding collection of terms and definitions that the Center\u2019s team have compiled in the course of their investigations into food, art, and the life sciences.<\/p>\n<p><strong><img data-recalc-dims=\"1\" decoding=\"async\" loading=\"lazy\" class=\"alignleft wp-image-983\" src=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/03\/amita.jpg?resize=109%2C150&#038;ssl=1\" alt=\"\" width=\"109\" height=\"150\" srcset=\"https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/03\/amita.jpg?resize=200%2C276&amp;ssl=1 200w, https:\/\/i0.wp.com\/www.iceboxstudio.com\/IS\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/03\/amita.jpg?w=217&amp;ssl=1 217w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 109px) 100vw, 109px\" \/>Dr. Amita Kuttner<\/strong> (they\/he) is co-founder of <a href=\"https:\/\/www.moonlightinstitute.org\/\">moonlight institute<\/a>, a non-profit organization that seeks to create frameworks for an equitable and just future. <a href=\"https:\/\/amitakuttner.com\/\">Amita<\/a> has a PhD in astronomy and astrophysics from the University of California, Santa Cruz, ran for Canadian parliament in 2019, and served as interim leader of the Green Party of Canada between 2021 and 2022.<strong><br \/><\/strong><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Host\/Producer: David Szanto<br \/>Music: Story Mode<br \/>additional audio: Maxime Giroux<br \/>@makingamealpodcast<br \/><a href=\"http:\/\/makingamealofit.com\">makingamealofit.com<\/a><\/p>\n<\/div><\/div><\/div><div class=\"fusion-layout-column fusion_builder_column fusion-builder-column-5 fusion_builder_column_2_5 2_5 fusion-flex-column\" style=\"--awb-bg-size:cover;--awb-width-large:40%;--awb-margin-top-large:0px;--awb-spacing-right-large:8.4%;--awb-margin-bottom-large:20px;--awb-spacing-left-large:4.8%;--awb-width-medium:40%;--awb-order-medium:0;--awb-spacing-right-medium:8.4%;--awb-spacing-left-medium:4.8%;--awb-width-small:100%;--awb-order-small:0;--awb-spacing-right-small:1.92%;--awb-spacing-left-small:1.92%;\"><div class=\"fusion-column-wrapper fusion-column-has-shadow fusion-flex-justify-content-flex-start fusion-content-layout-column\"><div class=\"fusion-title title fusion-title-3 fusion-sep-none fusion-title-text fusion-title-size-five\" style=\"--awb-margin-top-small:10px;--awb-margin-right-small:0px;--awb-margin-bottom-small:10px;--awb-margin-left-small:0px;\"><h5 class=\"fusion-title-heading title-heading-left\" style=\"margin:0;\">segments<\/h5><\/div><div class=\"fusion-text fusion-text-3\" style=\"--awb-font-size:14px;--awb-text-color:#8c5b39;--awb-text-font-family:var(--awb-typography3-font-family);--awb-text-font-weight:var(--awb-typography3-font-weight);--awb-text-font-style:var(--awb-typography3-font-style);\"><p>00:05:55<br \/>Jane Clause and teaching about Indigenous food knowledge<\/p>\n<p>00:21:00<br \/>Zack Denfeld and the Center for Genomic Gastronomy<\/p>\n<p>00:36:13<br \/>\u2018Stick This in Your Mouth!\u2019 (the fruitcake edition)<\/p>\n<p>00:45:54<br \/>the Food Questionnaire with Amita Kuttner<\/p>\n<\/div><div class=\"fusion-social-links fusion-social-links-1\" style=\"--awb-margin-top:20px;--awb-margin-right:0px;--awb-margin-bottom:20px;--awb-margin-left:0px;--awb-box-border-top:1px;--awb-box-border-right:1px;--awb-box-border-bottom:1px;--awb-box-border-left:1px;--awb-icon-colors-hover:#96a845;--awb-box-colors-hover:var(--awb-color1);--awb-box-border-color:var(--awb-color3);--awb-box-border-color-hover:var(--awb-color4);\"><div 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